Baba
Note: An audio file related with this posting has been uploaded to the blogsite, where you can listen to it or download it. A link to the blogsite has been appended in the Links section at the bottom of the email.
Namaskar,
All are aware that Ac Acyutananda Avt is the key staff member of Tiljala Publications. Verily Dadaji has spent decades and decades - his whole organisational life - in the Publications office. So it is most surprising and shocking to see the ludicrous statement he has made on an email forum.
See here what he has written - highlighted in yellow below:
“Neither AM nor Prout presently has a clear stand on the abortion issue.” - Ac Acyutananda Avt
Thus, Dada Acyutanandji is making the baseless, outrageous claim that neither Ananda Marga nor Prout has a clear position on abortion. Other than the fact that Dadaji is absolutely wrong, the main problem is that many margiis and wts will read his statement and think it is accurate.
They will wrongly conclude that:
(a) Baba did not give any guideline on this point of abortion, and
(b) a person can kill the fetus and still be strict in ahimsa.
That is how Dada A is misguiding everyone.
Thus Dada Acyutananda will lead many astray. All because Dada A foolishly proclaimed that Ananda Marga has no clear stand on abortion.
But nothing could be further from the truth. Those aware about this basic book of Ananda Marga - "A Guide to Human Conduct" - know that Baba spoke very clearly and conclusively on this matter with regards to ahimsa.
If you reference various chapters from Guru’s books, Baba has said to adhere to the code of ahimsa under all circumstances.
Manovákkáyaeh sarvabhútá námapiidá namahiḿsá.
Baba says, “Ahiḿsá means not inflicting pain or hurt on anybody by thought, word or action.” (1)
So Ananda Marga philosophy is adamantly against the dogma of abortion because it goes against the tenet of ahimsa.
Here is another irrefutable proof that Ananda Marga philosophy condemns the practice of abortion. Below please find the transcript and link to an audio file of an unpublished discourse. In this discourse, Baba states:
“Abortion is killing the potentialities...there is hardly any difference between you and an embryo...he [the embryo] is now within the body of the mother. And you are outside the body of the mother...You have got no moral right to kill him.” - Shrii Shrii Anandamurtiji
So the point stands tall. Ananda Marga philosophy plainly opposes the practice of abortion.
Here is that discourse as well as a link to the English audio file. Following please find an “as-is” transcription. Side by side there is an English audio file so you can see for yourself how Guru clearly condemns the practice of abortion. A link to the audio file has been appended in the Links section at the bottom of this email.
Unpublished Discourses on Abortion
[Ma'rgii--- "Should abortion be considered crime always?]
BABA: “Abortion is killing the potentialities, taking the potentiality of a living being is certainly a sin. It may or may not be crime. Crime depends on different countries, depends on certain conditions prevailing in different countries.”
BABA: “Suicide is a crime in England. And, to try to commit suicide is also a crime in England. To commit suicide is a crime in England. To try to commit suicide is also a crime in England. In India, to commit suicide is not a crime. To try to commit suicide is a crime, the police may harass you. And in Japan, to commit suicide is not a crime; to try to commit suicide is also not a crime. In England, if one commits suicide, he will be punished; and if one tries to commit suicide, he will also be punished. If one tries to commit suicide, he’ll be punished. He will be punished. And if one commits suicide, he will also be punished after death. His property will be confiscated. After death, he will also be punished, in England.”
BABA: “But, in India, if one commits suicide, he won’t be punished. His property won’t be forfeited by the government. But if one tries to commit suicide, he will be punished.”
BABA: “The crime depends on different conditions, spatial, temporal, and personal conditions, of different portions of the world.”
BABA: “Do you follow?”
BABA: “But there are certain cardinal human values, cardinal human points. Those points remain unassailed. As a matter of principle, abortion is a crime. But, when it is done to save the life of the mother, it is not a crime.”
[Ma'rgii A---"We call it, therapeutic abortion".]
BABA: “Yes. Then it is not a crime. Law permits it.”
[Ma'rgii A---"But, sometimes it may also be abused Baba. It may also be abused.]
BABA: “Yes, yes. It has been abused, yes. I know it, it has been abused. There should be proper check, proper control on it. By a strong medical board. or like that.”
[Ma'rgii—Is it a living body, the embryo.?]
BABA: “Yes. You see, fundamentally, there is hardly any difference between you and an embryo. You have come here outside, and [the] embryo is [inside the body of the mother]…”
[The cassette is cut here for a moment.]
BABA: “That is the difference. And why should you deprive that little man from the joys of life?”
[Ma'rgii---"Means, living man.]
BABA: “Yes. It is not desirable. You are a man, he is also a man. He is now within the body of the mother. And you are outside the body of the mother, that is the difference. You have got no moral right to kill him. When he is not your enemy. It is not at all a crime to kill the enemy, but that embryo is not your enemy. How can you kill him? How can you kill him? You can’t kill him. You have got no moral right to kill him.”
BABA: “What?”
[Ma'rgii A---"Baba, ..."]
BABA: “It has been clearly explained to Acarya Pranavananda.”
[Ma'rgii---"Pran'avananda]
BABA: “Just when the spermatozoa becomes one with the [ovum],”
[Ma'rgii A—then ...]
BABA: “Yes.”
That mind, that spirit with reactive momenta comes in contact with that embryo with the first moment. Because of its congenial physical structure. Congenial to that psychic structure.
BABA: “Clear?”
BABA: Spermatozoa is a living being with its peculiar samskara. Ova is a living being with its peculiar samskara. And the combination of the two creates a third animal with its own sam’ska’ra. And according to its physical structure, having parallelism with a certain mental sam’ska’ra that is, sam’ska’ra, the departed soul along with its sam’ska’ras, comes in contact with that newly-born embryo. The ova, dies. That ova is also a living creature that takes place, mental death of the spermatozoa; it is also a living creature. And the third entity with its own mental samskaras, is created.
BABA: “Clear?”
BABA: “Kalya’namastu” (2)
To listen to the original audio file of the above see the links section at the bottom of this email.
So Baba has made the issue crystal clear: Abortion is not condoned by Ananda Marga. There is no doubt about it.
Yet see how our senior publications Dada A has jumped in and muddied the waters by claiming that Ananda Marga has no clear stand on this issue.
Now though it has been proven that Dada A’s proclamation is woefully wrong and baseless. Sadly, he works in Publications and projects himself as a specialist, yet he is unaware of Guru’s discourses and teachings.
Best will be if Dadaji pays heed to Guru’s below teaching:
37 Workers Rules, Point #3 says, “One should not give any false answer and should consult with one`s seniors for the correct answer.” (3)
It seems Dadaji longs to be a leader and a respected voice of Ananda Marga philosophy but sadly he is ignorant not up to the mark. Given his current standard, Guru warns about such persons:
Andhenaeva niiyamánáh yathándháh
Baba says, “They are just like the blind leading the blind.” (4)
Innocent, naive citizens want to know the truth, yet sadly they are misled by Dada A’s proclamations.
Namaskar,
in Him,
Ravindra
Roy Stevenson
Note 1: Why this discourse is unpublished
Some may naturally wonder, “Why is the above discourse unpublished?” The unfortunate truth is this: Because it is not a Bengali discourse. If it were a Bangla discourse surely it would be have been published. But since it is a non-Bengali discourse, those in Publications never took the time to publish it. Rather they skipped over it. That is the tragic state of affairs in Tiljala Publications. Non-Bengalis discourses are ignored and cast aside like unwanted step-children.
Actually, they have all those cassettes; but if you raise the point with them why it is not published, then to hide their hypocrisy they will give you their “ready-made” answer: “The cassette was stolen.”
Note 2: Ananda Marga has the solution for every problem
Not just abortion, Sadguru Baba has addressed each and every problem confronting humanity - Ananda Marga philosophy is complete in all respects.
“A correct spiritual ideology is the only solution to the problems confronting the world. From this perspective we can call Ananda Marga ideology the philosophers’ stone. Just as the philosophers’ stone is meant to transform everything into gold, Ananda Marga ideology can, most definitely, find a just and rational solution whenever it is applied to any problem.” (5)
Note 3: My relation with Dadaji
As a human being and brother, i have regard for Dada Acyutananda on the personal level. But on the collective plane he is misleading others about Ananda Marga ideology. And it is for this latter reason that this email has been written.
Note 4: The Section from Dada A’s letter
Here below is a relevant excerpt from Dada Acyutananda’s letter where he categorically states that Ananda Marga and Prout do not have a stand on the abortion issue. Also below is a link to Dada A’s full letter.
The "About" page of the blog presently says only: "My name is Acyutananda ('c' pronounced as in 'ciao'). All posts are by me unless otherwise mentioned, and express my personal views. The purpose of this blog will be to raise consciousness about the unborn, and awaken our consciences about the rights of the unborn."
“Since I am a representative of Ananda Marga and Prout and my views might be considered by the public to represent AM and Prout views, yet neither AM nor Prout presently has a clear stand on the abortion issue, I don't presently mention on the blog my affiliation with AM or Prout.”
A November 2014 blog post, "Moral Intuition, Logic and the Abortion Debate," does not take sides on the abortion issue, but tries to explore the origins of moral principles in general.
To read Dada Acyutananda’s letter in full scroll down to the Links section and click on the second link.
References
1. Guide to Human Conduct, Ahimsa
2. Unpublished Discourse - 8/22/70
3. 37 Workers Rules, Point #3
4. Problems of the Day, Point #32
5. Problems of the Day, Point #36
Namaskára.
I have a pro-life blog for the public at http://www.noterminationwithoutrepresentation.org
The "About" page of the blog presently says only: "My name is Acyutananda ('c' pronounced as in 'ciao'). All posts are by me unless otherwise mentioned, and express my personal views. The purpose of this blog will be to raise consciousness about the unborn, and awaken our consciences about the rights of the unborn."
Since I am a representative of Ananda Marga and Prout and my views might be considered by the public to represent AM and Prout views, yet neither AM nor Prout presently has a clear stand on the abortion issue, I don't presently mention on the blog my affiliation with AM or Prout.
A November 2014 blog post, "Moral Intuition, Logic and the Abortion Debate," does not take sides on the abortion issue, but tries to explore the origins of moral principles in general.
Also exploring the origins of moral principles is an article I wrote for the June 2014 Prout Journal, "Can Science Determine Moral Values?" It is available online here --
http://proutglobe.org/2014/06/can-science-determine-moral-values/
-- and here --
http://gurukul.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Can-Science-Determine-Moral-Values1.pdf
At the former site, it can be commented on.
For the March 2014 Prout Journal, I wrote an article "A Proutist Perspective on Abortion". I can send a digital copy on request.
I may also write about the abortion issue on the new Move On forum, under the "Organizational Development" section, which is for Margis only.
I also recommend this blog: http://viswakamalwelfaresociety.org/ , "speaking out for the born and unborn children of India, and assisting their parents." Viswakamal is the initiative of a few young Proutists in Kolkata. Within around ten days, a new post will appear about a baby girl whom Viswakamal saved from abortion. Viswakamal has been able to arrange a little financial help for her single mother.
Another article, already mentioned under the recent "Spiritual Philosophy" topic, is "A Teleological Argument for a Non-Material Consciousness". It is available online here:
http://gurukul.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/A-Teleological-Argument1.pdf
I can also send Brother Bhaktaviirya's response to it, on request.
And one more article that I could send to anyone interested is “Discipline and the Tantric Path”, which I wrote for Prajiná Bháratii in 1996. It is quite different from any of the other writings I have listed. Though it doesn’t mention AM by name, it is really only for Margis, and particularly WT’s. It is a vindication of all our conduct rules, especially WT conduct rules.
In Him,
Dádá Acyutánanda
Ignorance of Acyutanandaji
Note: An audio file related with this posting has been uploaded to the blogsite, where you can listen to it or download it. A link to the blogsite has been appended in the Links section at the bottom of the email.
Namaskar,
All are aware that Ac Acyutananda Avt is the key staff member of Tiljala Publications. Verily Dadaji has spent decades and decades - his whole organisational life - in the Publications office. So it is most surprising and shocking to see the ludicrous statement he has made on an email forum.
See here what he has written - highlighted in yellow below:
“Neither AM nor Prout presently has a clear stand on the abortion issue.” - Ac Acyutananda Avt
Thus, Dada Acyutanandji is making the baseless, outrageous claim that neither Ananda Marga nor Prout has a clear position on abortion. Other than the fact that Dadaji is absolutely wrong, the main problem is that many margiis and wts will read his statement and think it is accurate.
They will wrongly conclude that:
(a) Baba did not give any guideline on this point of abortion, and
(b) a person can kill the fetus and still be strict in ahimsa.
That is how Dada A is misguiding everyone.
Thus Dada Acyutananda will lead many astray. All because Dada A foolishly proclaimed that Ananda Marga has no clear stand on abortion.
But nothing could be further from the truth. Those aware about this basic book of Ananda Marga - "A Guide to Human Conduct" - know that Baba spoke very clearly and conclusively on this matter with regards to ahimsa.
If you reference various chapters from Guru’s books, Baba has said to adhere to the code of ahimsa under all circumstances.
Manovákkáyaeh sarvabhútá námapiidá namahiḿsá.
Baba says, “Ahiḿsá means not inflicting pain or hurt on anybody by thought, word or action.” (1)
So Ananda Marga philosophy is adamantly against the dogma of abortion because it goes against the tenet of ahimsa.
Irrefutable proof from an unpublished discourse
Here is another irrefutable proof that Ananda Marga philosophy condemns the practice of abortion. Below please find the transcript and link to an audio file of an unpublished discourse. In this discourse, Baba states:
“Abortion is killing the potentialities...there is hardly any difference between you and an embryo...he [the embryo] is now within the body of the mother. And you are outside the body of the mother...You have got no moral right to kill him.” - Shrii Shrii Anandamurtiji
So the point stands tall. Ananda Marga philosophy plainly opposes the practice of abortion.
Here is that discourse as well as a link to the English audio file. Following please find an “as-is” transcription. Side by side there is an English audio file so you can see for yourself how Guru clearly condemns the practice of abortion. A link to the audio file has been appended in the Links section at the bottom of this email.
Unpublished Discourses on Abortion
[Ma'rgii--- "Should abortion be considered crime always?]
BABA: “Abortion is killing the potentialities, taking the potentiality of a living being is certainly a sin. It may or may not be crime. Crime depends on different countries, depends on certain conditions prevailing in different countries.”
BABA: “Suicide is a crime in England. And, to try to commit suicide is also a crime in England. To commit suicide is a crime in England. To try to commit suicide is also a crime in England. In India, to commit suicide is not a crime. To try to commit suicide is a crime, the police may harass you. And in Japan, to commit suicide is not a crime; to try to commit suicide is also not a crime. In England, if one commits suicide, he will be punished; and if one tries to commit suicide, he will also be punished. If one tries to commit suicide, he’ll be punished. He will be punished. And if one commits suicide, he will also be punished after death. His property will be confiscated. After death, he will also be punished, in England.”
BABA: “But, in India, if one commits suicide, he won’t be punished. His property won’t be forfeited by the government. But if one tries to commit suicide, he will be punished.”
BABA: “The crime depends on different conditions, spatial, temporal, and personal conditions, of different portions of the world.”
BABA: “Do you follow?”
BABA: “But there are certain cardinal human values, cardinal human points. Those points remain unassailed. As a matter of principle, abortion is a crime. But, when it is done to save the life of the mother, it is not a crime.”
[Ma'rgii A---"We call it, therapeutic abortion".]
BABA: “Yes. Then it is not a crime. Law permits it.”
[Ma'rgii A---"But, sometimes it may also be abused Baba. It may also be abused.]
BABA: “Yes, yes. It has been abused, yes. I know it, it has been abused. There should be proper check, proper control on it. By a strong medical board. or like that.”
[Ma'rgii—Is it a living body, the embryo.?]
BABA: “Yes. You see, fundamentally, there is hardly any difference between you and an embryo. You have come here outside, and [the] embryo is [inside the body of the mother]…”
[The cassette is cut here for a moment.]
BABA: “That is the difference. And why should you deprive that little man from the joys of life?”
[Ma'rgii---"Means, living man.]
BABA: “Yes. It is not desirable. You are a man, he is also a man. He is now within the body of the mother. And you are outside the body of the mother, that is the difference. You have got no moral right to kill him. When he is not your enemy. It is not at all a crime to kill the enemy, but that embryo is not your enemy. How can you kill him? How can you kill him? You can’t kill him. You have got no moral right to kill him.”
BABA: “What?”
[Ma'rgii A---"Baba, ..."]
BABA: “It has been clearly explained to Acarya Pranavananda.”
[Ma'rgii---"Pran'avananda]
BABA: “Just when the spermatozoa becomes one with the [ovum],”
[Ma'rgii A—then ...]
BABA: “Yes.”
That mind, that spirit with reactive momenta comes in contact with that embryo with the first moment. Because of its congenial physical structure. Congenial to that psychic structure.
BABA: “Clear?”
BABA: Spermatozoa is a living being with its peculiar samskara. Ova is a living being with its peculiar samskara. And the combination of the two creates a third animal with its own sam’ska’ra. And according to its physical structure, having parallelism with a certain mental sam’ska’ra that is, sam’ska’ra, the departed soul along with its sam’ska’ras, comes in contact with that newly-born embryo. The ova, dies. That ova is also a living creature that takes place, mental death of the spermatozoa; it is also a living creature. And the third entity with its own mental samskaras, is created.
BABA: “Clear?”
BABA: “Kalya’namastu” (2)
To listen to the original audio file of the above see the links section at the bottom of this email.
Stand of AM on Abortion
So Baba has made the issue crystal clear: Abortion is not condoned by Ananda Marga. There is no doubt about it.
Yet see how our senior publications Dada A has jumped in and muddied the waters by claiming that Ananda Marga has no clear stand on this issue.
Now though it has been proven that Dada A’s proclamation is woefully wrong and baseless. Sadly, he works in Publications and projects himself as a specialist, yet he is unaware of Guru’s discourses and teachings.
Best will be if Dadaji pays heed to Guru’s below teaching:
37 Workers Rules, Point #3 says, “One should not give any false answer and should consult with one`s seniors for the correct answer.” (3)
It seems Dadaji longs to be a leader and a respected voice of Ananda Marga philosophy but sadly he is ignorant not up to the mark. Given his current standard, Guru warns about such persons:
Andhenaeva niiyamánáh yathándháh
Baba says, “They are just like the blind leading the blind.” (4)
Innocent, naive citizens want to know the truth, yet sadly they are misled by Dada A’s proclamations.
Namaskar,
in Him,
Ravindra
Roy Stevenson
Note 1: Why this discourse is unpublished
Some may naturally wonder, “Why is the above discourse unpublished?” The unfortunate truth is this: Because it is not a Bengali discourse. If it were a Bangla discourse surely it would be have been published. But since it is a non-Bengali discourse, those in Publications never took the time to publish it. Rather they skipped over it. That is the tragic state of affairs in Tiljala Publications. Non-Bengalis discourses are ignored and cast aside like unwanted step-children.
Actually, they have all those cassettes; but if you raise the point with them why it is not published, then to hide their hypocrisy they will give you their “ready-made” answer: “The cassette was stolen.”
Note 2: Ananda Marga has the solution for every problem
Not just abortion, Sadguru Baba has addressed each and every problem confronting humanity - Ananda Marga philosophy is complete in all respects.
“A correct spiritual ideology is the only solution to the problems confronting the world. From this perspective we can call Ananda Marga ideology the philosophers’ stone. Just as the philosophers’ stone is meant to transform everything into gold, Ananda Marga ideology can, most definitely, find a just and rational solution whenever it is applied to any problem.” (5)
Note 3: My relation with Dadaji
As a human being and brother, i have regard for Dada Acyutananda on the personal level. But on the collective plane he is misleading others about Ananda Marga ideology. And it is for this latter reason that this email has been written.
Note 4: The Section from Dada A’s letter
Here below is a relevant excerpt from Dada Acyutananda’s letter where he categorically states that Ananda Marga and Prout do not have a stand on the abortion issue. Also below is a link to Dada A’s full letter.
The "About" page of the blog presently says only: "My name is Acyutananda ('c' pronounced as in 'ciao'). All posts are by me unless otherwise mentioned, and express my personal views. The purpose of this blog will be to raise consciousness about the unborn, and awaken our consciences about the rights of the unborn."
“Since I am a representative of Ananda Marga and Prout and my views might be considered by the public to represent AM and Prout views, yet neither AM nor Prout presently has a clear stand on the abortion issue, I don't presently mention on the blog my affiliation with AM or Prout.”
A November 2014 blog post, "Moral Intuition, Logic and the Abortion Debate," does not take sides on the abortion issue, but tries to explore the origins of moral principles in general.
To read Dada Acyutananda’s letter in full scroll down to the Links section and click on the second link.
References
1. Guide to Human Conduct, Ahimsa
2. Unpublished Discourse - 8/22/70
3. 37 Workers Rules, Point #3
4. Problems of the Day, Point #32
5. Problems of the Day, Point #36
- Baba Audio link ==> Baba's original audio file on abortion
Dada A's Letter in Full
Namaskára.
I have a pro-life blog for the public at http://www.noterminationwithoutrepresentation.org
The "About" page of the blog presently says only: "My name is Acyutananda ('c' pronounced as in 'ciao'). All posts are by me unless otherwise mentioned, and express my personal views. The purpose of this blog will be to raise consciousness about the unborn, and awaken our consciences about the rights of the unborn."
Since I am a representative of Ananda Marga and Prout and my views might be considered by the public to represent AM and Prout views, yet neither AM nor Prout presently has a clear stand on the abortion issue, I don't presently mention on the blog my affiliation with AM or Prout.
A November 2014 blog post, "Moral Intuition, Logic and the Abortion Debate," does not take sides on the abortion issue, but tries to explore the origins of moral principles in general.
Also exploring the origins of moral principles is an article I wrote for the June 2014 Prout Journal, "Can Science Determine Moral Values?" It is available online here --
http://proutglobe.org/2014/06/can-science-determine-moral-values/
-- and here --
http://gurukul.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Can-Science-Determine-Moral-Values1.pdf
At the former site, it can be commented on.
For the March 2014 Prout Journal, I wrote an article "A Proutist Perspective on Abortion". I can send a digital copy on request.
I may also write about the abortion issue on the new Move On forum, under the "Organizational Development" section, which is for Margis only.
I also recommend this blog: http://viswakamalwelfaresociety.org/ , "speaking out for the born and unborn children of India, and assisting their parents." Viswakamal is the initiative of a few young Proutists in Kolkata. Within around ten days, a new post will appear about a baby girl whom Viswakamal saved from abortion. Viswakamal has been able to arrange a little financial help for her single mother.
Another article, already mentioned under the recent "Spiritual Philosophy" topic, is "A Teleological Argument for a Non-Material Consciousness". It is available online here:
http://gurukul.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/A-Teleological-Argument1.pdf
I can also send Brother Bhaktaviirya's response to it, on request.
And one more article that I could send to anyone interested is “Discipline and the Tantric Path”, which I wrote for Prajiná Bháratii in 1996. It is quite different from any of the other writings I have listed. Though it doesn’t mention AM by name, it is really only for Margis, and particularly WT’s. It is a vindication of all our conduct rules, especially WT conduct rules.
In Him,
Dádá Acyutánanda
